I am always reluctant to use Netadvantage for ASP.NET controls when there already exist the same controls in VS2005 (i.e.: gridview, panel, tab). Although Infragistics controls are easier to use and has plenty of formatting options, the load that these controls add (JavaScript code in the resource file and styling images) push me away. I am not sure exactly how much it would increase the loading time or it would be noticeable for the user. I hope I am wrong
As I'm sure you've come to realize, software development is a constant tradeoff. Add more functionality, and performance takes a hit. In the new generation of web applications, end users have come to expect a rich experience, and that doesn't come for free. In many cases the performance hit is negligable, but there's always going to be a 'best case', where the feature-less will be faster than the feature-laden.
Here are a few things to think about.
Using AJAX techniques, you can break through performance barriers that were impossible to break through in the past. For example, you can use Virtual LoadOnDemand for the WebGrid to bind to millions of records, and have the performance of a grid with only 10 rows in it. Rich editing is made possibe using masked editors, and can be done without annoying postbacks to "enter edit mode". Paging can be done asynchronously, and the paging mechanism is built into the grid. There's an entire client-side API that you can use to program against any of the Infragistics controls without having to postback. Leveraging these aspects will enable you to create an application where the user can be more productive, and have a good experience.
Here are a couple of additional points to think about when dealing when any web application.
All script and css files are cached by both your webserver and the client browser. The client will only have to wait while the script is downloaded the first time they visit the site (unless they clear their cache).
Turning on GZIP compression on your WebServer can shrink the js files down quite a bit.
Also, you may have read in the beta forums that we're working on a new framework for our controls called "Aikido" One of the goals of this framework is to minimize the difference between "feature" and "performance". We want to deliver the features with the performance, and that's what we're focusing on.
I hope this helps,
-Tony
Hello,
We are using NetAdvantage for .NET+WPF 2007 Vol 3, the question that keeps coming up and I am looking for documentation on, is: Does NetAdvantage need to load, JavaScript or ActiveX controls to the client?
Can you point me in the right direction?
Chris, I appreciate your help on this forum, but I will definetevely not accept your comments above.
You know, when there is a product on sale, for which you pay, you expect this product to work as it is described, and when you plan to use specific functions you will expect to have access to a clear user guide documentation, not only to a very technical API help. When you buy a cell phone, you just dial the number, and wait for the answer, you don't have to guess, or try/error on different functions in order to make your call....This is what happening with the Infragistics solution, for which it seems that you are an expert on the matter. Also, let me remind you that I'm not the only one in this forum with this type of question. Just to compare, we took 15 minutes of our free time, connect a 50k record table to the Telerik/grid component using one of their samples, and guess what, it worked like a champion.
All this to let you know that the programming world is driven by an economic factor, and the reason why 90% of the companies decide to buy 3rd party controls is to save time and money...
Any way, thanks for your help...
PS: we did add some paging to my test page (again in our free time), and it seems to be much faster than before, but again, some weird things happened: 1.- when we apply a sort on a column, it is only sorting the data on the current page... 2.- it is still faster on Firefox......
http://42.autodev.2020.net/test/User/list.aspx
I definitely agree! When component vendors market their products as drop-in items to increase productivity they should work as such. If the learning curve is large and/or the components are fragile (buggy?) then the productivity gains quickly bleed away. We tried to use the scheduling components in a project (the reason we bought Infragistics) and ran into so many problems, missing features and performance issues that we abandoned it and hand-coded the app. I understand there will always be trade-offs when using components but as nmonge points out, there are other options where some of these issues have been addressed!
P.S. Anyone but me disappointed in the last 3 quarterly "updates"?
@JohnBobby - I'm interested in hearing what your disappointments were with the last 3 updates. I personally use the WebDialogWindow and WebImageViewer in just about every app I build these days. I also don't know how I used to live without application styling. If I ever have to go back and set indidivdual CssClassName properties/attributes on various controls and objects again, I think I'll cry. AppStylist alone I think was worth a 1 year subscription. There's also a brand new reporting/document engine capable of producing PDF or XPS documents. And underneath all of that was a re-tooling ontop of Microsoft ASP.NET AJAX Extensions. I think it's safe to say you wont find anyone able to reproduce that workload for what ammounts to less than 1 week's pay. I seriously am intersted in better understanding why the releases left you disappointed, so if you're in a sharing mood, I've got my 'ears on'.
well, one of the features you seem to be most excited about (app styling) was not in the last 3 updates but about 5 updates ago. Personally I feel things like dialog window and image viewer are very minor additions since they are readily available without having them in my netadvantage toolkit.
Overall the last 4 releases have left me unimpressed.
ASP.NET 2008 Vol. 2-WebSlider (don't care about it)-WebHierarchicalDataSource (don't even understand it yet)-add one new chart type to existing charts (I generally feel a new chart type is way too minor to be touted as a new feature)
ASP.NET 2008 Vol. 1-Aikido Framework with three new controls (only three? no grid? and no Aikido in latest release? is this really coming?)
ASP.NET 2007 Vol. 3-export features (kinda cool but not strong enough to be the basis for a new release)-enhancements to existing controls (ho hum)
ASP.NET 2007 Vol. 2-SEO (I don't believe anything you have added to the controls will replace or significantly reduce my custom SEO efforts)-official release of gauges that were released previously (kind of a letdown that they were used as a major feature of two releases! plus once I tried to use them I realized they produce static images without any sort of animation-gauges should move!- and are difficult to set up and generally not worth the trouble IMHO)-enhancements to existing controls (again, ho hum)
maybe my expectations are too high. that is possible. the primary reason we purchased the netadvantage components when we did was because at the time you appeared to have the best scheduler component out there. however once we started using it we quickly realized that some of the features available in the Winform version were not in the web version. and key things became deal-breakers for us. for example, you can drag an appointment from one time to another time within a day but you cannot drag to a different day. both we and our customers are puzzled by this limitation.
when I have asked about the web scheduler I was told you are going to continue to improve it but I have no idea if and when that will ever happen. it has not happened during my 1.5 years of subscriptions! and as far as I can tell you do not publish a roadmap for the product lines so we never know whether something is going to be fixed or not. my impression is you created it and then abandoned it to work on other components. and now one of your main competitors has a really superior scheduler that we are evaluating.
your competitor also appears to be way ahead when it comes to their native Ajax support. your Aikido Framework seems to have stalled while they have already released a completely new framework.
I apologize if I sound too negative. I admit to being a bit frustrated. It is not my intent to disparage your components as you clearly have some big fans (Chris!) but at this point we are planning to switch to another component vendor when our subscription expires. I need a solid scheduler component and don't know if you are ever going to update yours. fortunately (for me at least) I can get one right now that will do what I need.
No developer I know tries to upgrade with each new release; we wait a year or so and jump 2-4 versions. The possibility of regression outweighs the new feature value of a one-version upgrade.
Some of us see this as a good reason why Infragistics should consider doing one release a year. They could release more features, and less bugs, if they used the extra time well. OTOH, it would tend to undermine the perceived (but not actual) value of their subscription-based marketing strategy.
At least that's how I see it. YMMV. And despite all of the above, and my many other pet peeves, I think the product is well worth the price.
JohnBobby said: As far as price is concerned it really is not about the price. I have lost more $ in wasted time trying to get the scheduler to work the way I want it to than I paid for the components! These tools are supposed to save me money!
As far as price is concerned it really is not about the price. I have lost more $ in wasted time trying to get the scheduler to work the way I want it to than I paid for the components! These tools are supposed to save me money!
My experience with WebGrid, Input Formatters, and the Menu, is that the learning curve is steep, but after that it's worth it. It's taken me about two years to learn my way around my particular subset of the tool set.
They are trying to improve this by providing better documentation, but these forums are (IMO) several times as valuable as all of the KB, Docs, and Samples put together. (Thanks in large part to the participation of IG staff.)
@WombatEd
I would tend to agree that the subscription model is flawed. I know they (not just Infra but the industry) are trying to keep our cash flowing in but for me I think it causes more problems than it cures. 1) as I noted above, my expectations from a new release are never met and 2) it actually causes me more work if I choose to upgrade my apps in the field 3 times a year! But, just for the record, if I added up the last 3 updates and considered them a yearly update I'd still be disappointed!